Hungry Dog Barbell Podcast
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Hungry Dog Barbell Podcast
Eamon Coyne
Eamon, a seasoned CrossFit athlete and Navy veteran, shares his transformative journey from smoking sailor to CrossFit connoisseur, highlighting how the sport's communal roots and competitive edge carved a path for his top percentile aspirations. We also shed light on the evolution of fitness tracking and judging standards.
Venturing into the business arena, we recount the challenges and triumphs of running a CrossFit affiliate, drawing from the dark days of the pandemic where the grit of our community shone brightest.
All right, what up dogs? Welcome back to another episode of the Hungry Dog Barbell Podcast. We are joined by the one and only Eamon Coyne. Eamon. We are at like 3.30 right now, a half hour out from the open announcement. We were just rapping about it a little bit. It's going to be low back pain. The lungs are going to be on fire for the burpees. What do you think about the workout?
Speaker 2:I think it's great. You know we were talking earlier and when he first announced it was a 21 59, I was. I had to kind of have the same thought as you like. Oh, that's a good like finisher, like the times would be really tight. There's going to be there's got to be something else.
Speaker 2:There's got to be something else, and so I thought it was going to be a dual dumbbell snatch with the burpees, or a double hop burpee or something like that, um, but then he came out with the, the big 180 rep number and, uh, that's, that's more dave castro than for sure, than anything else. So, um, I like it. I mean, I two of my favorite movements, so let's do it.
Speaker 1:So I was just listening to, like, uh, adler talk right there, I can decline this. And he's like go out hot and that's what it says on the, the paperwork too right for the open. They're always given like their uh, their tips for it. Like, what's your strategy going to be? Are you going to like go right in right away or try to hold onto that, or are you going to just try to ease into it?
Speaker 2:Yep, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to come out firing all guns and blade. Oh man, yeah, I'm gonna. Uh, yeah, I mean, you know, once you get through the 21s, the workout's almost half over anyway. Um, I think it's 21 on the front end and then 24 on the back end with 15.9 um. So you're, you're pretty close to that halfway point 90 rep point, yeah, um, I don't see why you wouldn't just send it as best you can.
Speaker 1:This is like reminiscent of maybe 22.2, the deadlifts and the burpee over the bar. You remember that workout? How'd you fare in that?
Speaker 2:It's the only workout that Sarah Murphy has ever beat me in. Oh wow, Really she loves a good deadlift.
Speaker 1:She does a little good deadlift Yep. The one time she came to the camp across the kop like and worked out with me, it was a deadlift workout, deadlifted running, and she smashed it like not many girls went rx and she did it, crushed it, yep yeah, that's two, two great movement running.
Speaker 2:She's a um, she's a high level, uh, I guess she's a high level, uh, triathlete. So she does a lot of running yeah, did, did you.
Speaker 1:did you like that workout when it came out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I liked it. It was, uh, it was the year right after I had gone to the games. Um, so, you know, as a master's athlete, there's a very interesting way that I approached the open. Um, it's a, it's an ease into the season for me, right, it's like getting familiar with competition again, getting my feet wet and, you know, trying to dial in my nutrition before the competition, trying to uh make sure my warmups are good. So, um, you know, with them taking the top 25% now, um, you know, there's always reason for concern, but unless something goes super sideways, I'm pretty confident in my ability to be top 25. So it's just a lot of practice, Feel ready. I would quit CrossFit if I didn't finish in the top 25.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I'm leaving that part in there too. Everyone out there. I think you're going to be pretty safe in there, though. So how do you feel about the CrossFit Open? Actually, before I even ask you that question, how long have you been doing CrossFit and how did you first discover it?
Speaker 2:I started CrossFit in 2005. So I started CrossFit, I was on the USS Ronald Reagan in the Navy and I was smoking at the time and I just finished smoking a cigarette on the smoke deck and I walked out and I saw these guys in the hangar deck doing a workout and I did, like you know, the traditional split back by chest try. Oh yeah, I'm sick on leg day. You say legs once a year? Yeah Well, I grew up playing hockey, so legs was always a part of it. But um, yeah, I saw them doing a workout and walked over to them and you know, in the middle of the workout which everybody loves when you get interrupted in the middle of the metcon um, I was like what are you all doing out here? And uh, they said, come by tomorrow at three o'clock and check it out. So I went by three o'clock the next day and got my ass handed to me and, uh, quit smoking right there.
Speaker 1:And that's nice dude. If, if people out there listening, if someone at your affiliate hopefully the owner or one of the head coaches there doesn't have a story similar to that, or if there's not someone that's at the affiliate with that, like they like random people doing some weird fitness stuff and they're like come back tomorrow and find out, and it was cross. If you don't know anyone like that, like go find someone like that. You got to find a friend like that. Yeah, Because the people that, wherever they are, they are doing the real CrossFit. You know, like that's where it's really happening. The people that are around someone like that you know. So how long were you in it and how serious were you taking it in those next like five, 10 years, as it was building up to like the CrossFit that we know today with the CrossFit Games?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I I changed my entire training modality after that. You know, I played hockey growing up. I, kind of a riffraff of a youth, did a little bit of college hockey before I joined the Navy. Um, gotten to some you know, just like bad life choices, typical like late teens, early twenties stuff uh, joined the Navy at 24. And I had every aspiration of of going back and finishing out my three years of eligibility and and college hockey after that. So I needed something, uh, and I was still training, training and you know. So I ended up, you know, picking up CrossFit and got really serious about it. When I was on deployment, my first appointment was in Iraq and if we weren't doing something, we were training or eating or sleeping. That's really all we did.
Speaker 1:What's the gyms over there like when you're on deployment?
Speaker 2:This was 2005, so it was pretty sparse. It was really early in the CrossFit days. Mainsight started posting workouts in 2002. And I was just following Mainsight at the time. This was back when Coach Glassman was still commenting almost on a daily basis on the old whiteboards. This is the old legacy website. You'd see Greg Amundsen's times and you'd be like what the hell is this guy doing? But this is the early days.
Speaker 2:The reason why I started was to get in shape for playing hockey again and for being in the military and making sure I'm ready for anything. I didn't really start kicking into high gear until I deployed to Afghanistan in 2007. And then it was like I'm doing two a days, I'm practicing movements, trying to get my first muscle ups and all kinds of stuff. So, um, that's when I got real serious with it. Uh, separated from the Navy in 2008, bounced around a little bit, ended up in Ithaca, new York. Uh, for the rest of my undergrad. And, um, as soon as I finished my undergrad, I went to graduate school. Um, well, yours was that. That was. I went to graduate school. What?
Speaker 1:year was that.
Speaker 2:Was that 2000? No, 2011,. I finished undergrad 2012,. I finished grad school, but while I was an undergrad and playing hockey still at Ithaca College I was playing with one of my teammates my defense partner actually was Tim Paulson, and Tim and I opened CrossFit Palace during our NBA year and you know it's been going ever since, for 12 years now, Damn.
Speaker 1:So I want to ask multiple questions based off of that, and I'm sure it's going to take a bunch of different places. The first one is like so you did CrossFit to get in shape for hockey and then you followed through with that plan. When did it become like I want to switch over to competing in CrossFit?
Speaker 2:When we opened the gym in 2012, my first like real competitive season. I did the open in 2012. Actually, I did my first open workout with Sheila Barden. I don't remember that now.
Speaker 1:I asked someone like six months ago whatever happened to her.
Speaker 2:I think she's she's moved on, she's done some other things.
Speaker 1:Um, a lot of that class is in that territory now where, like, either they stayed big time in a cross or they're like all right, it's time to completely separate Yep, yep.
Speaker 2:And she completely separated. Uh, I know she she was, she's doing some kind of fitness something or another. So she's still in the space somewhere yeah, I'm just not sure where, um, but yeah, so I did my first open workout with her, uh, 2012. Uh, at crossfit dewitt in dewitt, new york, um, and then tim and I uh opened up palace and during my mba year, um, we were basically either in class or training um, and that's the first time I had a coach. Uh, first time, tim and I both had a coach and you know, we both turned down jobs and started building the gym and um, in 2014, I think our new building was done, 2014 or 2015. And we moved into a much bigger space, which is where the gym is now still Still kicking ass.
Speaker 1:How long was your brain business minded and I say that to mean like you talked about hockey and the military, like the Navy, like that's where your brain was and exercise and fitness. And when did it become like I want to open a gym, I want to help other people run gyms and know how to manage things. Like, where did you get those attributes from?
Speaker 2:So that grew more organically than anything else. What I do now, you know I still own the gym and everything like that, but what I do now is more tied closely to what I really wanted to do, which is help people as weird as that sounds, Although I guess you run into that a lot in this space and help people specifically as it relates to their mental health and the tie-ins that that has with nutrition and tie-ins that has with exercise and sleep and positive, you know, sustaining relationships and things like that. And that's really where my focus is now and that's what I wanted to study when I got into the military originally was I wanted to be a social worker. When I got into the military originally was, uh, I wanted to be a social worker, Um, and then I got into, uh, I think, a college. I was at Penn state for a little while and then I ended up at Ithaca college and um, business just kind of called to me. Um, I wanted to, I wanted, I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I've always wanted to work for myself.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, after four years in the military, with people telling me what to do and how to eat and when to wet my ass, you know it. It made me say like I learned a lot of lessons while I was doing that, but I think I got it from here and that's kind of what led me into that. The formal education that I have in in business, you know it gave me like the tools I don't think I necessarily needed a degree in that in order to be successful in business, though there's so many yeah, there's so many resources out there, so many people to lean into if you're willing and like curious to learn um, in order to do that, Um, you, you know there's a lot of great business minded people in the crossfit space, so that's, that's perfect opportunity right there.
Speaker 1:The next thing I want to talk about is the early years of opening, the affiliate managing and everything. So you put your application to crossfit, you send in your money, you get approved, you open that, you have the space, you open it up. What is like the first maybe one to three years of communication and resources that you get from crossfit, like were they a big helping hand? Was there still a lot of like business-minded people like that back in 2012?
Speaker 2:and the first like three years um, there was people that were around, but we were mostly just like stealing with our eyes from other affiliates. Being in Central New York at that time I had a lot of other great affiliates around there. Jason Ackerman still owned CrossFit Albany and he was doing a great thing up there. Dan Goldberg and his wife Ellie in Syracuse they were doing great work up there. I had a friend that was in Rochester, new York. Tony Ronke, who was on gymnastics staff for a long time, was running an affiliate up there.
Speaker 2:But the biggest help for Tim and I was probably our coach, who we leaned into a lot. Who's actually out in Seattle. Name is, uh, steven hit. He and his wife molly uh own, uh, the industrious franchise model right now. Um, super interesting model. They just opened up another franchise in frisco, texas. They have four or five industrious franchises in the seattle area. Um, they're they're expanding very quickly and steven is a? Uh, they're both incredibly intelligent people and they they really taught me um to to hear more about the community that I was building than a lot of other things. Uh, within, within, running it, and he said that that's going to be what sustains it. Yeah, and I think you know, you and Amy over at KOP. Like you guys know how that works. Yeah, the community is Yep.
Speaker 1:You know that's just going to be what's going to either keep you afloat or sink you. You know the strength of your community and what you pour into it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think the message of that really came through for us. During COVID, our gym, our affiliate was the doors were shut for seven or eight months and we had members that were still paying their membership and making sure that the gym was going to survive and follow through. We were taking care of them. Care of them. We did a lot of online stuff. When we had the opportunity we'd do stuff in the parking lot. We spent a good chunk of cash changing out the air filters in the gym because we were told that if we did that, we could open, and then three days later they came back in like oh, you can't run business, sorry, guys. So a lot of shaky things that happened during that. But you know, our membership sustained us and if we didn't, if we weren't creative with how we were continuing to give back to the community and stay in touch with the community, I don't know if cross the palace would be around anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in the first three years, did you ever have a moment that you could recall where you were, like yo, I don't know if I could keep going Nope, no, never, nope. Do you have moments in general Like, are you just-? Oh, absolutely Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I've had more businesses and attempts at business fail or things go sideways, or. You know, I have a really bad habit of not getting things written down in contract form and then you know I don't have anything to hold people hold hold to. You know, hey, this is what it says in the contract, this is what we agreed to. Um, you know, I think I think tim and my business agreement is written on a you know a cocktail napkin somewhere. Um, that's not true. We have, we have an actual agreement. But, um, I was just excited to be doing what I was doing. We both had.
Speaker 2:I had a six-figure offer from Boeing. Coming out of grad school, I was going to move out to Seattle and live in Seattle and work at Boeing. Tim had an offer at KPMG. His MBA is in public accountancy. He was going to take the Series 7 and series six and be an accountant. And if you know Tim, you'd be like, oh yeah, that makes sense. But you know it, within six months of us opening the gym, we both turned those jobs down and we just poured everything we had into into building the affiliate.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh so we're still kind of in the same territory. The crossfit open starts to pop up around those few years. I think the first year was like 2011. What are your initial thoughts on that if you take yourself back to like 2011? Even did you like it as a platform to bring in the fittest?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, I, I didn't really I don't know that early, that early on, like we really understood what it was for. Yeah, it was just like a qualification process, right, it was, um, all the, all the competitions I had done up to that point. It was just like, hey, we're doing this competition, you guys want to sign up and you just like. It's like all right, give me 50 bucks. Um, I think that was the first time that that, you know, as the open was popping up and we were figuring out how, like, across its season would play out, you know I had no idea what regionals were, any of that stuff. So I think it was just like an exciting thing to like. And, like I said, I came from the early days of the the message boards on thecom website and you know it was kind of like that again uh the leaderboard.
Speaker 2:You'd go and you'd check your scores, but instead of having scores that are, you know, in paragraph form and people talking about the workout and things like that, it was just like the score pops up and you're like yep, and it's like, oh cool, I can compare myself with people around the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's downplayed, like how cool that is that $20 a year, and you could go look at it. I forget myself until I go on the app and I pull it up. I'm like, hey, this is my past eight years right here where I've ranked against everybody in the world America, my small little region right here. That's pretty's pretty cool. You know, as a person that works out every day, you know you could like internalize that and like, okay, this next year I want to. I want to be here right now. I know that I'm here next year. I want to be there. Like, what am I going to do to attain that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah and I think it's. I think it ends up being you know, the moment you have some historical data and you're able to look back on things, you can kind of see the progress. If you stick with it Right, you can see the progress and kind of like, where you are, people don't keep. I used to keep a notebook of all my workouts.
Speaker 1:I don't do it anymore.
Speaker 2:I have like a Google sheet that I follow now, but I used to, you know, follow that and you know, every month or every month and a half, I'm testing a benchmark workout and I'm seeing, kind of like, how things are improving, where I need to pick up things, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, um, I, I love the progression of the sport of CrossFit. Um, I think it's a little clunky sometimes of CrossFit. I think it's a little clunky sometimes. Yeah, still so young. It is so young. You having judged at MFC, I'm still sorry for that.
Speaker 1:We're going to get to MFC the creation and all these things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the year that you were there was a rough year for us, but I just think that it's in order to professionalize what we're doing in the sport of CrossFit. We need to have professional judges, we need to have professional standards that are upheld at every gym across the world. You know and I think that the open gives an opportunity to do that you know there's a vetting process for the judges. You have to take a judge's course and then there's, you know, the, the standards are released and it's like okay, now it's the job of the judge in order to uphold the standard and make sure that people are doing that appropriately.
Speaker 1:So CrossFit has a process, you know. What do you think about the judges course itself? Did you take the judges course this year Every year, yeah. What did you think about it this year? Personally, I took it last night. I finally finished it and I thought it was one of the shortest ones so far. Like last year, like they had multiple videos of the count the reps. This year there was just one final section of like count the good reps in this workout, but I think that it covered everything that it needs to cover, whether if you are brand new to it like taking the judges course course for the first time or someone that's done it 14 years like you. You know what were your thoughts on it I thought it was great.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I like the. You know, years past they've kind of over complicated things. Um, you know, figuring out what a good rep is and a bad rep is and being able to tell, distinguish the difference at speed, um, I think is a skill that needs to be acquired and honed um, but I think that gives you a good benchmark to kind of like start it yep for sure.
Speaker 1:What if you could add anything to the judging process right now, from the open to like quarterfinals just after it? So only the online portion of it, like whether it be the in-person judging of the open, and then like the online for that portion also and then the all online for quarterfinals? What would you change?
Speaker 2:maneuver add I think the online version, uh, I, I think the open part. I think that's the best we can do, right, as weird as that sounds, unless we're willing to have, you know, a worldwide view of judges who are looking at all these videos, of the hundreds of thousands of people that do the open, it's just a numbers game. At that point, the quarterfinal stage, I think, can be. I think there, I think there needs two. Two things need to happen there. One, you need to have a person, uh, an in judge, judge in person, um, in order to hold the standards and, you know, make sure that you're you're following through on everything, um, and that's more for the athlete's ability to complete the workout than it is for for judging purposes. Right, if they get a no rep and they're filming it and they don't have anybody there saying no rep, like they're gonna, they've missed a rep yeah, they're gonna.
Speaker 2:They're gonna get penalized for that they're gonna get penalized for that, and a lot of the camps are starting to do that now, which is good yeah, I, I go to training think tank every year for either quarters or semis and um, they're pretty, pretty adamant about upholding standards there, um, and then, uh, I think it needs to be kind of like you know, the videos need to be made public and there needs to be a public voting process. That happens, right, um, people are are aware that they're being, their videos are being viewed by more than just one person in a standalone setting, and other people are viewing their videos. They're going to move a lot better and they're going to move with a lot more virtuosity than they would otherwise.
Speaker 1:Yep, love that virtuosity, one of those things. It's a slowly diminishing in the greater CrossFit, like lexicon things we talk about, think about, try to do for all of our workouts. You know unfortunately yeah, unfortunately, as the brand gets bigger, that things like that are going to happen there. All right, so now let me ask you about running the crossfit open and an affiliate, because we just talked about floor plans and stuff like that earlier. How did you feel when they went from five weeks to three weeks?
Speaker 2:as an affiliate owner. Uh it it, uh. It makes it easier. As somebody who is a fan of the sport and the community side of what we do, I think it kind of like brought it down a little bit.
Speaker 1:A little bit For like the first two years definitely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of love the five weeks because it's just like a longer opportunity for people to get together on a friday night and throw yeah, you were invested together for a while with that five weeks yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:I remember, you know, I remember that palace. I couldn't, I couldn't even tell you. Multiple years we had, you know, well over 100 people signed up for the open and people would be there all night and, like you know, the kegs would roll out and you know, people are ordering pizzas to the gym and hell, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like it was just such a fun community event, um, and now that it's shortened not that it it diminishes that, but you know, it's just like you know, as a, as a competitive athlete, I'm like cool, we got that one out of the way. But as an affiliate owner, I'm like man, I wish my athletes, like in my gym, had more opportunity to, to kind of like get another test or two in.
Speaker 1:You know yeah, um, so some of them are going to move on to the quarterfinals, but it's not the same kind of like magic from the open, you know. Yeah, it's definitely more stressful for people, like it's a lot less just fun now, you know yeah, yeah, and I you know, with them taking 15 additional.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, people say it's a money grab. I don't think it's a money. I mean, yeah, they're gonna make money off of it, but like, yeah, like, why wouldn't they? They're a business like why wouldn't they why?
Speaker 2:They're a business Like, why wouldn't they, why wouldn't if they have the opportunity to invite more people to compete and it makes them some more money? If they're able to, like take that and actually build the business like, why wouldn't they do that For sure? And the same thing happens when, like, you raise your prices at your gym, right, like you think you guys are going to get. Like you know my prices. When we first opened the gym, I think we were charging 135, right, something like that. And now we're up like like I don't even, I don't even know where it's at, but it's, it's over one, it's well over 135, but it's like, yeah, the the price of the price of running a business and growing a business. It's not going down, it's going up. Like things are so much more expensive now and you're not providing that 135 service anymore.
Speaker 2:No, no, all my, my coaching staff in new york, I think I have one coach and they're they're probably pretty like my youngest coach, the coach we've had the least Everybody else is at least a level two they have. You know, I think between the nine coaches we have up there, there's probably well over 60 or 70 years combined experience of coaching CrossFit. Yeah, like, I have coaches that have been with us all 12 years. Wow, wow, um, yeah, so you know, yeah, you're. You're paying for something, you're paying for a service that's a lot more experienced, a lot better. Um, and it's not to downplay like the, the, the new gyms that are opening and they've only got like one year of experience. Um, people got to earn their chops, man. They have to go through the process and learn in order to get better, and as long as they're dedicated to that, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I love that. Now it's been 12 years since you guys first opened. They had resources to a certain extent back then, but what do you think now about what CrossFit HQ is doing for affiliates? They're raising the affiliation fee, but they also say that they're going to provide more value with it. What's your opinion on that? How much value do you see coming out of the pipeline?
Speaker 2:Well, I think this is a twofold conversation. This goes back to what I just said about the cost of business. Isn't what it was? 12 years ago we were a $2,000 affiliate. I did a podcast a while ago and somebody asked me a similar question and I said, hey, I would pay $10,000 a year if I saw $10,000 worth of value. You know, I think HQ is putting out a lot of great stuff right now. You know, I liked Eric. I just don't think that he had I don't want to say he didn't have the right business acumen, because obviously he was very successful in his other business endeavors and he's an affiliate owner, but I think he's too excited to be the CEO of CrossFit and didn't really think about the parts that the non-nice guy parts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the non-nice guy parts, yeah, yeah, and I think don fall is. I think I like him in the position that he's in. I think he's, I think he's good for crossfit, I think he's smart. That's the other great thing about crossfit. Right, I can bring my kids to the gym. I have to get open for the ready, are ready for the open later and my kids can come in and they can hang out and yeah, you know, they spend I usually coach nights, so they spend, you know, at least two hours here at night and we've got a play area over there and you know it's. It's really cool to see my kids being raised in an environment like this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like one of the best things you know, just for life.
Speaker 2:Incredible. Yeah, like I grew up, my dad wasn't an athlete. He played tennis in high school and college. I think my mom wasn't an athlete. You know, I kind of broke that mold in my family and took hockey to a pretty high level, but it was. You know, working out was not something we did when I was a kid. I just played sports. You know, once again, and I know a lot of people say this, if I had CrossFit when I was starting hockey or starting baseball, I probably would have been a totally different athlete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the things I've seen it do for my teen athletes is ridiculous, but it's also crack for the adults right.
Speaker 2:We know that for the adults, right, like, if, if you have an adult, that is like, you know, um, I have a guy that's supposed to come in here to the gym next week. That is 540 pounds. Um, you know, we're gonna start, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the glassman approach. We're gonna start walking on the air runner. Yeah, we're gonna walk. We're gonna walk for 20 minutes on the air runner together and just talk, right, um, and then we'll slowly start like ramping him up. But you know, to me, and then as he starts seeing progress, he's like hell, yeah, this is awesome and I know he's gonna see progress, I know it, right, um, but that that's the, that's the lifeboat that that greg glassman was talking about.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, people have, people have their opinions about Greg, and some of them are warranted, absolutely. But what that man has given to the world can't be taken away from him, right? Yeah, you know the, the lifeboat of our opportunity as trainers and our opportunity as as affiliate owners and things like that to to literally save people's lives the cure for the world's most vexing problems you know, that's it, man, and it.
Speaker 2:you know, and I'm I'm a proponent like I don't care if you start doing Pilates, I don't care what you do. If you walk into my gym, I'm going to take care of you. But if you, if you just start going for 20 minute walks every day, that's all I care about. Move your body Like the, the vitality of that is so important.
Speaker 1:Glassman would say, like I would take a client, I, we would go for a walk for 15 minutes on week one. Week two, we go for 20 minutes. Week three, we go for 25. And I ask him how he feels. Every time after that, and then by week four, usually that first 15 minutes starts to feel even easier than it was all week one. You know, that's where the magic is. But so one of the last times that Glassman was still in charge of CrossFit whatever that means, but one of the last times he was apparently he was trying to divest from it. I never talked to him personally to hear that from his mouth. That's what everyone was saying. That's why everything changed that he was trying to divest from the games as the biggest marketing part of CrossFit. Seen that trending on Instagram. Do you think that? Does it appear to you that that's happening, that they're taking away the marketing from the CrossFit Games on purpose, and do you think that would be positive or negative for CrossFit health?
Speaker 2:For CrossFit health? I don't think it. I think it's a. I think it's a null argument for CrossFit health. I don't think it's going to. It doesn't benefit CrossFit Health as much as it benefits the name of CrossFit right, and what the sport is.
Speaker 2:I look at this model as three different things. Right, you have the affiliate model, right, and you were asking about the affiliate, the value and everything like that. I think the affiliate toolkit is incredibly valuable for people that are fresh to opening new gyms, and me even as a 12-year owner, going in there and like reviewing some of that stuff and being like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Or even getting into some of like these Facebook groups and things like that, and like learning from some of those people that are willing to put out information for free. I think is probably some of the most valuable things we have as affiliate owners.
Speaker 2:And then I think there's the training side, right. So CrossFit training and that's the seminar staff, that's the specialty courses, that's all the continuing education, everything like that. I think that's another pillar for the CrossFit model. And then the last piece is going to be the, the competitive side, the game side, right? Um, I don't know. You know they say, the games don't make any money. Um, I know what I've spent to go to the game, so I don't know how they don't make any money um and you know, as a business guy too, not making any money could be multiple different things.
Speaker 1:Right, like correct. I mean, personal funds might have gone up, but what I put into it I didn't get back or I broke even. You know, like all those different. Yeah, we can spend things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know we'll get into that when we talk about NFC. But you know, I think they stand as three, they stand alone, as three different pillars, that kind of tie into each other and I think that creates the ecosystem of CrossFit. I don't think we have the same familiarity with the quote unquote elite athletes with our everyday athletes, right as we did in the early days, right like I remember going to regionals and it's like you know, back in like 2013, 2014, and it was like, oh yeah, that's the guy that owns the gym down the street. I've worked out with him a couple times, um, and now, like a lot of these more elite athletes are in camps or they're Now like a lot of these more elite athletes are in camps or they're.
Speaker 1:Somebody even say that the top, top ones are competing brands against CrossFit. Yeah, like the hard work pays off, proven and mayhem and there might be a little bit of animosity there.
Speaker 2:Yep, I would, I would. Yeah, no, like you know, the, the general ecosystem, ecosystem of crossfit, if you don't have those three things, like if you were to pull away the, the competitive side of crossfit, um, the brand would survive. It'd be fine. Um, I think it would allow affiliate owners to focus more on what they're offering to clients and members. Um, instead of, you know, thinking about oh, I gotta train for three hours a day because I want to go to the games.
Speaker 2:I'm at the 89th percent, yeah, and it's like that last one percent is a pretty big jump there.
Speaker 1:But maybe three hours or 15 minutes will do it, you know, maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe just a little bit more training, you should be fine. Yeah, you know, but I think if we got rid of the affiliate model, obviously wouldn't survive. If we got rid of the training model, no, no chance in hell. Um, so I think that you know if they, if they had to get rid of one of those three prongs, or if they outsourced one of those three prongs, like they did with the masters and the teams this year, I think it would still be okay. You would still have the people that want to compete, you still have the people that want to compete.
Speaker 1:You still have the people that want to display their freakish fitness in some way, shape or form. So the competitive atmosphere would still exist. But if the other two didn't exist, the brand itself wouldn't exist away. Will this still stand if I pull this piece away? Will this still stand? So I mean, I would agree with that. But what about the other question now? Do you think that there is a targeted approach to downplaying the games?
Speaker 2:um, I have to see, I have to see this year. You know they just signed this deal with the city of fort worth. Um, I really want to see what happens with the games this year and and kind of like, what effort they put into it, and I think that's going to tell more of the story, yeah.
Speaker 1:From my side like I feel like my emails would blow it up from CrossFit games, just like every other year, you know.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, and I mean the, the, the tempo of the emails I'm getting has not changed. Yeah, I don't know if that's because I have. I'm in every single email server. You know, across the, the, the ecosystem of CrossFit, or not, you drop your email everywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know, I'm here in Knoxville, Tennessee, where they're going to be having the syndicate crown this year, and Wilson was in here two weeks ago. Just, Um, and Wilson was in here two weeks ago, uh, just scouting, scouting some of the places that he's going to, uh, the Coliseum, and uh, he's actually running a community event here which is pretty, pretty freaking cool, Um same time or same day, right Like it's gonna be like.
Speaker 2:So it's. It's all weekend Um. Day one is individuals, day two is uh teams of two and day three is teams of three. So sunday will be teams of three, saturday teams of two and then individuals on friday. Wow, yeah, and that's such a cool like and you know if you, if you compete in that, you get uh free entry for the weekend. Like it is a talk about giving back to the community. Like Wilson, he's a whiz man, he's such a good dude. Seriously. He said that this is the community events actually going to be more challenging from a logistics standpoint than the, than the semifinal event, I bet.
Speaker 1:I bet. Yeah, he puts on some awesome events. So that's a perfect segue there. Man, let's start talking about you as an organizer and how you have your hand in the ring for a couple of different other things. So when was the mfc born? I like the year I was there. I think that was like the third year and third year. It was a challenging year for you guys. You had a lot of growing pains that went on right there. Like just from the numbers that I heard, I was like okay, like I understand all of this now you know like that changed. So tell me where, how was it born? Like, how did you get involved in it?
Speaker 2:if it was your brainchild, tell me all those things uh, it was the brainchild of four of us um, myself, bobby petrus, uh, jamie free and heath moody. Uh, heath, uh, had qualified for the game for the second time in 2020. And literally the day after they announced the qualifiers for the Masters games that year, they canceled them and we were like that's not okay. So Bobby owns a. Bobby owns a senior living management company and we had a bunch of access to COVID tests and medical and all kinds of stuff. So we leveraged his resources with the company that he already owns and we extended invitations to everybody that qualified for the Games come out and could be with us in 2020. Cj Martin jumped in. Bobby was an Invictus athlete for a long time.
Speaker 1:CJ jumped in. Where was the first comp at that year? Where'd you guys host it?
Speaker 2:It was in Fort Wayne. Oh yeah, yep, and I remember. I remember, before the first event kicked off, it was like the sun wasn't even up yet. I think it was august, maybe. Um, the sun wasn't even up yet. We're, bobby and I are standing out the person that was a swim, kettlebell snatch workout and we're standing out by the pool and all the athletes are around. They're warming up in the, the warm-up lanes and stuff like that, and we looked at each other and we go well, we're here, there's nothing. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So there's no no plans to like do that before, like it was like we went back to the community.
Speaker 2:We, we, we, uh, pitch that put the plan together. Acquired equipment, acquired sponsors uh, brought athletes in in three months. Wow, yep. So literally the week after they canceled the Masters games that year, we had started putting together the plan for what the Masters Fitness Championship was going to be, damn.
Speaker 1:Yep. So tell me your grade of that first year, based off of the workouts, the athlete experience and what else was I going to say and the logistics of your actual venue.
Speaker 2:Tell me your grade of of that so the first year we were in a venue downtown, um, at the grand wayne center, which is across the street from the baseball stadium down there, and we because it was covid um, we got the the center for a pretty cheap price. Uh, we were actually able to use use the, uh, the baseball stadium across the street for probably one of my favorite events that we've ever done. Um, it was, uh, it was a snatch one mile run. Snatch you had five minutes to build up to a one-minute snatch, one minute transition run a, which was three laps around the upper concourse of the baseball stadium and then transition back to your platform and snatch Wow.
Speaker 1:Three seconds or those weights combined.
Speaker 2:The weights combined and the time for the run. But the kicker for that one was athletes were released on one-minute intervals so they didn't know where the other athletes were when they were running. It was super cool. Intensity through the roof Go chase that guy it was like Hunger Games running around a baseball stadium.
Speaker 2:It was cool, yeah, so it being the COVID year and it like our first year as organizers and things like that. All things considered, I think we did an awesome job that first year, which is why we decided to bring it back a second year.
Speaker 1:We had no intention of doing this year after year, so did the second year come about like mid-event, or was it months after?
Speaker 2:event, or was it months after it was? Uh, we did a little bit of a recap and you know, I had sent out, uh, some surveys to the athletes and wanted feedback, and that's when we were like, okay, we can do this again so how many athletes did you have?
Speaker 1:year one 120 year two.
Speaker 2:How many do you have that show up? It was about 100, it was 200.
Speaker 1:And then you had teams also.
Speaker 2:No Teams came in the year you came. Oh, got it Got it.
Speaker 1:So the year two now you have like 80 more. Tell me, get you changes, tell me things that you learned, that you implemented that year.
Speaker 2:We moved to the bigger venue, so the venue that you were at. We had moved to that venue that year. You know, we ended up just like minor feedback stuff. We didn't have enough stuff for the warm-up, we didn't have enough, you know, athlete swag and gear and stuff like that, and so we ended up creating some better partnerships and sponsorships and, um, I think the athletes had a much better experience year two than they did year. Well, year one was fun because it was new and, like I said, I think we did an awesome job, not really knowing what was going on, Kind of flying by the seat of our pants and just making sure that, like once again paying attention to the community and giving them what they wanted. Year two, I think we got a little bit more professional with it. We brought in a bigger professional judging staff. We had all the right equipment. Things were set up just a little bit better year two.
Speaker 1:So now, year three, the same venue, because you just saw me there.
Speaker 2:How many athletes now Double that we were almost at 400 athletes. Oh, my God, you know, I think I think the athletes, um, I think the athletes generally, cause I sent out a survey that year too. I think generally the athletes had a really good experience. Um, the thing that that still haunts me to this day is, um, uh, the the judging staff, uh, and how we kind of like fell short with you guys. Um, you know, I, I tried doing some things that I thought would be beneficial and the judges would appreciate. Um and it, it missed the mark, right? Um, you know, we cover the hotel rooms for all of our judging staff that came in. Um, you know, I, I, I personally bought you guys dinner on the last night.
Speaker 2:You know, after I had fallen short, I had some special shirts and some challenge coins made and I was trying to get out to the judging staff and I saw some people at Wadafluza and I'd see people here and there. I think I ran into you at Green Beret Project last year, yeah, and I'd see people here and there. I think I ran into you at Green Beret Project last year, yeah, and either way, I take a lot of ownership for that. I think I failed greatly on the judging staff. Like I said, I take probably more ownership for the failures that year than that are probably warranted At least I've been told that but that are probably warranted Uh, at least I've been, I've been told that but that's. That's just my personality. I I want everybody to have a good experience.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think I hit the mark on two of three uh stakeholders I guess I'll call them. You know, I think the spectators had a good time. We had a great um, there was a great amount of like like vendor village there and you know, there's Fort Wayne's a cool little town. Yeah, um, I think the athletes had a great experience. There was one shift in a workout that I had to shift, um, and I think it's because, um, I think it was because you know, we were running, you guys as judges, uh, pretty much all day on Saturday and I was like Nope, we're taking a break. Uh, there's an hour delay for everything. Now for the rest of the day, I remember that I was like, oh wow, sit down.
Speaker 2:I got so much negative feedback from the athletes that day, man, like they, they just didn't care. They were just like no. And I was like, oh well, yeah, you know what I'll take that the judges need some time to themselves and they gotta, they gotta, recoup and get back out there.
Speaker 1:So until you're the man of the arena and you have to make calls like that, you'll never understand, like what it's like to have two different sides with because neither side's wrong. You know, the athletes aren't wrong for one to keep going, the judges aren't wrong for wanting to take a break. So until you're the person that has to make those calls like, you won't be able to have a fully formed opinion on it, you know. So what's the goals? Going forward on that?
Speaker 2:I have actually stepped away from MSC. I'm no longer involved.
Speaker 1:Oh, so there's going to be someone else with goals, so instead of going on with that, let's ask about just the Masters field. In general, masters are separate from the CrossFit Games, as we've noted beforehand. What are thoughts on that? When the word came out, I love it, love it, I love it.
Speaker 2:Does it detract at all?
Speaker 1:from. I don't know how cool you feel as someone if you go to the CrossFit, if you go to the Masters Games games.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I I experienced um carson as a spectator. Um, I experienced madison as a spectator. I experienced madison as an athlete. Um, I think for us to to grow this appropriately, it needs to be led by the masters community for the masters community, and not led by HQ with these uh really interesting ideas on what the masters want, um, when they don't really pay attention, right? Um, masters make up, uh, well, over 50% of the uh the total open field. Um, they have more spending power um than any of the others. Um, they're the ones that are affiliate owners. They're the ones that are that own gyms. They're gonna be looking for new equipment, they're gonna be looking for apparel for their athletes. You know, they're looking for stuff for themselves. Um, they're the ones that are gonna be spending the money, um, you know. So I think those two things combined, hq kind of leaned into that Sorry, I just got a call HQ kind of leaned into that, and I don't know that it was for the benefits of the Masters community. I think it was for the benefits of the individuals and the teams kind of build on the backs of the masters. So, uh, I'm excited that, um, you know, bob and joe, who run legends. They're they're smart dudes. They're gonna do a good job.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, with the guidance of some of the the more intelligent people at hq from a programming standpoint uh, some of the resources that HQ has from a sponsorship standpoint you know, I've offered my words of advice to them. I'm trying to help them find some sponsors. I'm trying to help them find some things that are going to help really elevate the competition, and they didn't ask me for that, I'm just offering it. You know they're going to do a great job. I'm not worried about them at all. I think it's going to be a. You know, I said to somebody everybody keeps saying oh, I don't know if I want to compete this year. You know it's not the same and I'm like listen, I don't care if they call it the bullshit games. If I'm competing against the 40 best men in the world in my age group, yeah, I'm still competing against the 40 best men in my age group in the world yeah, all I know is my name and your name is on a leaderboard.
Speaker 1:I want my name to be higher than yours. You know exactly, exactly easy way to put it. So one last question on that before we move on to like what you're doing now, because I want to promote that stuff too. You want to see out of the masters crossfit games. What do you want to see in the open, the semi-finals, um, and in the games itself, everything from, uh, workout wise, um, things you hope.
Speaker 2:Come up, tell us what you want to see um, there, you know, there's not really many moves that I'm like, movements that I'm like god, like I don't want to do that. Um, dumbbellumbbell box stepovers. If they show up I'll be pissed, but anything else, like you know, this child is escaping again. I'm out, I don't.
Speaker 2:Give me one second, I don't know, I don't know where the remote is. Ask your brother. Oh, look, you opened your eyes and found it. Kids are great, man. You know, there's definitely movements that I want to see come out. I like heavy barbells, I like higher skilled gymnastics movements. There's been a progression over the years of you know, they introduce something in the games and then they introduce it at semifinals, uh, for the individual athletes, and then they introduce it to the masters at some point, Uh. So I'd love to see things like um, like, like handstand pirouettes. I'd love to see um, double under crossovers. I'd love to see some of those um, you know, pullovers, things like that. I'm all for it.
Speaker 1:Hell yeah, you want the older generations to be doing the higher level skills Like. That's how it should be too.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And a lot of people around here, especially in the tri-state area of PA, new Jersey. They'll scale masters, athletes, and if it's a local competition they'll make scale and masters the same, sometimes even masters a little bit lower than that. Amy from KOP, she's always like, nah, like whatever RX is, like maybe take a little bit, but like it should be mostly the same. Like, if I have deficit enhancing pushups for my open division in a comp, it's most likely going to either be strict or like a lower deficit for masters too. You know, I'm all for it, man, and that's that's how it should be. A lot of them in today's world, those are the OGs that can really smash workouts too. So like like don't take it easy on them. You know, yeah, yeah, but what's aiming up to now? Like where is most of your focus at?
Speaker 2:um, so I have a couple things going on right now. Uh, I run uh a uh wellness company called uh big impact pro big impact project. Um, and I have five pillars that I focus on we kind of touched on them earlier Nutrition, movement, sleep quality, mental resilience and positive relationships. I work with one-on-one clients in order to help them excel in those areas. Yeah, that's been around since 2020. I started that back in 2020. Um, yeah, that's been around since 2020. I started that back in 2020.
Speaker 2:Um, and I'm currently um applying for a second graduate degree in social social work. Back to the dream, back to the yep, back to that one. So, um, you know, there's a great program out of Far Hills, new Jersey, called Between the Ears. It's run by Bill Anthes and Carrie Anthes Used to own CrossFit Morristown. Bill's a former special operations Green Beret CrossFit level for affiliate owner and then he went to Columbia and got his degree in social work and now he is a therapist. But his therapy isn't only like one-on-one work with people. It also has to do with kind of those areas that I talked about and and I really, really respect Bill and I think it's the next evolution of what we do in the affiliates on a daily basis. So that's the direction I want to head in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're morphing all those things together right now. So if an athlete wants to work with you on the five pillars of developing their wellness side, how do they get involved with that?
Speaker 2:I have an Instagram page. Usually that's where it starts out. I only take a specific number of clients every month so that I can provide a pretty high-level premium service, and my goal isn't to have people in my program for longer than four months. My goal isn't to have people in my program for for longer than four months. Um, if I haven't given them the skills, uh that to to kind of like run with within four months, um, either either I have fallen short on on my commitment to them or they're not committed to the process.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, if it's longer than four months, uh, it's, it's too long, right? Um, you know, being able to come back and do like a a month check-in, once a year or once every six months or something like that, I'm totally cool with that. But if it's something where I'm like I'm just like holding onto clients and like you know, kind of like titrating information to them, um, just so I can retain clients and make money off of it, that doesn't really sit well with me. Um, I want to give people the skills that empower themselves, not, you know, have them kind of uh, me leeching off of them and leeching off of me if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Have you had to have some of those tough conversations Like, hey, maybe we're not a fit, uh, right now. Yet.
Speaker 2:Absolutely have. Yep, oh, how, how do those go? Um, usually what I'll end up doing is is um, at that point I've usually figured out what I feel they need most, or what they've expressed that they need most, and I will direct them to somebody who specifically does only that thing. Right, so, like, um, somebody that only does nutrition. Um, there's a ton of great companies out there that only do nutrition and I'm going to refer them out to that. Um, you know somebody that wants to compete at the highest levels of the sport? Um, you know, I'll refer them to them to. There's a million and one programmers out there, coaches out there, that would be more than happy to have a client added to their statement. So if they're looking at improving all five areas, that's where I come in Now let's be a little funny here.
Speaker 1:at the end, tell me what's something that's just goofy and nonsense in the whole CrossFit functional fitness space that you see that you're like. I wish this would just stop, oh man.
Speaker 2:There's probably a million and one things. My favorite is when somebody walks in the door says like, oh yeah, I'm going to the crossfit games. It's like nah, bro, doesn't happen like that dude, I was that person man.
Speaker 1:I can't wait till I go to the games like, oh my god. But you know it's, you know, I think you look at people like jeff adler right, he was a volunteer at the games.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a volunteer at the games five years ago and last, oh my God. But you know it's. You know. I think you look at people like Jeff Adler, right, he was a volunteer at the games. Yeah, he was a volunteer at the games five years ago and last year he won. That's, that's good, Well he just won 24 one.
Speaker 1:I'll crush it Like six minutes. Him and Carolina are amazing tandem too.
Speaker 2:You know the. The opposing side of that is is, you know, the things that are amazing in CrossFit. I think far outnumber the things that are, um, that are funny or tragic in CrossFit, right, um, especially at the affiliate level, where I'll mention again, like it's the life raft. You know people coming in and, and you know like it's the life raft. You know people coming in and and you know I have people come in and it's like you got to pull them under your wing and they, you have to build trust with them in order for for them to really see progress. Right, cause there's going to be days where people just don't want to come into the gym. Right, they're going to want, they're going to need that phone call Like, hey, I haven't seen you in a week, Everything Okay, why don't you, why don't you join me on Monday? We'll, we'll, we'll get a workout and chat a little bit. Um, and I think that's the human side, that that is super important.
Speaker 2:Uh, as a coach, as an affiliate owner, as somebody who's in this space, is the human side of it. You know the the I say to you know, my, my coach is here. I'm at Rocky top CrossFit in Knoxville Now. My coach is here. You know, I say I can teach you guys how to how to coach thrusters and pull-ups. I can't teach you to give a shit, yep, right. And it's like if I can't teach you to give a shit, I don't know that you're a good fit for this. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's going to be hard for you. You're going to come in here every day. You're going to regret it just for just building that up on your own, you know, as a byproduct of not caring about when you walk in the door. So you know, some people you can't. The cream will rise to the top, and that's always going to be true in this space. The ones that have the drive to make it happen, that care to make it happen, those are going to be the ones that are going to go make it happen, you know. So at the end here, man, what are you most hungry for now?
Speaker 2:Most hungry for now.
Speaker 1:I'll probably have steak tonight. Hell, yeah, yeah, dude, that's what I'm trying to get to do too.
Speaker 2:I don't go hi, I'm like, oh, you know I'm, I'm hungry to keep. Um, you know, I'm um 13 years into my coaching career. Um, I've coached in some pretty cool places. I was across at New England for a while. I was the head coach there, or I was the director of operations there. Harry was still the head coach there. You know, I've coached a lot of affiliates. I've probably coached well over 20,000 humans.
Speaker 1:I've seen a lot of movement, yeah.
Speaker 2:I've seen a lot of movement. Yeah, I've seen a lot of movement, um, and you know I just want to stay hungry for that, if that makes sense. I want to make sure that. You know I'm very curious. So, like, it's not just about the movements for me anymore, it's about interacting with the membership and making sure that they're um, you know, this place needs to be a solace for people. It doesn't need to be something that's stressful, um, there's enough stress in the workout and if I can assist in that in any way, that's that's what I want to do. I was talking to somebody earlier today and I said I just want to help people and that's. That's literally what. That's, that's what my whole goal in life is.
Speaker 1:So yeah, that's, that's what my whole goal in life is. So, yeah, build better humans. Back to what we talked about earlier building better humans. But, dude, thanks for coming on. It's been a great episode here. It's time to go I don't even know we're about to go, do I think we're about to go get get some dinner before my athlete lifts in the morning? Amen, man, thank you for being on. Absolutely, brother. Thanks for having me. I do, we'll talk soon. Peace, all right sounds good see ya.