Hungry Dog Barbell Podcast
Run with the pack!
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Hungry Dog Barbell Podcast
Chris Plentus
Chris Plentus shares his transformative journey from a novice in CrossFit to becoming a successful gym owner. Throughout the episode, he emphasizes the importance of community, the challenges of balancing work with family, and the lessons learned in creating an authentic gym experience that fosters lasting relationships.
• Chris’s early encounters with CrossFit and its impact on his life
• The transition from engineering to owning a gym
• The significance of community and client experience in fitness
• Lessons from the first year of gym ownership
• The importance of balancing business responsibilities and family life
• Insights into reading and self-educating for business success
• Upcoming projects and vision for the future
What's up, dogs? Back with another great episode this week. I'm joined by Chris Plennis, owner of both Kana Fitness and also the Mainline Gym. Chris and I dive into the early days of being an affiliate owner lessons you learn along the way and how to prioritize and balance all the things that you're passionate about in life. I hope you enjoy this episode. Please like and subscribe to the show if you did, but one thing I want to ask you that I didn't put on like the loose topic list, man, is do you consider yourself a competitive person?
Speaker 2:I don't consider myself a competitive person, but I do believe people who might look at some of the things I've done would think I am competitive. I would say, if anything competitive? Uh, I would say, if anything, I'm competitive with myself. But I am by no means. Um, I have a very, I have a very growth minded, a growth mindset, and a and a um, a zero sum, a non-zero sum game. Uh, in the sense of like I really believe everybody can win. You know, like, just the fact that, like different gyms are popping up and um, and it were different franchises, and even if you're relatively close to each other, I think it's all good. Like, I think everybody can learn from each other. Um, so, on some level I do some competitive type things, but, um, but I would not consider myself competitive.
Speaker 1:So the competitive side of CrossFit draws so many people in. Man, how did you find it in the beginning? Like, let's just find that brief period where you just found CrossFit, Tell me, like where you first heard about it the gym. You walked into early feelings and all that Bring me back to that time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I first heard of it in 2007,. My now wife, but then girlfriend, her dad, had, uh, read a men's health magazine and started doing it just on his own, and at the time I think their family was, uh, we were in college, uh, we met in college and, um, but her, her parents and then her younger sisters were living in El Salvador, um, and he needed a workout to do, um, and saw it in like a men's health, started doing it, told us about it, um, but it really wasn't until I watched the movie 300 and then the behind the scenes as to how they got you know, ripped, basically that really, I connected what Eric was talking about and then what I saw through this behind the scenes and put those two together, dove into CrossFitcom, watched as many videos as I could, downloaded all of the journals, and for a month I'm a researcher. So for a month straight I just consumed as much content as possible, which back then was pretty modern to be putting out videos of people working out for free, and this was back in. This was so. I was in grad school. At the time, I was getting my master's in counseling and I just it was, it was was, you know, at the time p90x was pretty popular, yeah, and a number of other programs, but you had to pay for those programs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cross it. What really separated them from others? Not only the intensity part and the you know kind of like grittiness of it, but it was also just the open source nature of it. You could go look at a workout anytime on cross itcom. You could download videos. Uh, you had to download like the file, like the dot mov file, and you know um it was. It was technology wise at the time, it was modern, but it's funny to look back on it now were you posted in the old the like the dot com, the uh message boards?
Speaker 1:were you posting your score? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yep, I was on message boards um, um, brand X which had, uh, they had started the first um kids program. Uh, across our kids. They had a forum on their website to have different levels. So I was in grad school at the time at Villanova and I would go to the uh the gym on campus and just try these workouts. I had no idea what I was doing at the time, you know I would. I would have considered myself like a soccer player, slash kind of runner. Um, I had no experience lifting weights besides your traditional bench press and you know, uh kind of janky squat. So it was largely watching videos, seeing what they did and then mimicking that as best as I could on my own for a year and a half.
Speaker 1:There was no point to performance videos on YouTube right now, like I think sometimes people take that for granted. How you could go on there, see Julie Fischier showing you the perfect med ball clean and all those things, pamela Lagdan and all the other people that are in those videos. Back then that was not a thing you know, not at all.
Speaker 2:No, no, there was no instruction videos. If anything, it might have been glassman doing uh, some instruction to his athletes that he had on uh at his place. Yeah, and someone happened to film that, but it was definitely not to the degree of content that's out right now, which is insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people don't know that, like, crossfit really is a media company. And that's what they did. Exactly what you said. They open source, gave out all the information, because Glassman's goal was really to just the world's most vexing problem right, go solve that. So how do I fix it? I give out the info you know Yep exactly info.
Speaker 2:You know Yep, exactly. So I did that, um for a year and a half and, um, you know, I remember my first workout I think it was my very first workout was Diane and you know, 21, 59 deadlifts, handstand pushups, and I scaled the deadlift. I want to say I started at 65 pounds. I think that went down very quickly to 45 during that workout. Um, handstand push-ups were probably push-ups, um, and even those I had to kind of scale, uh, to go to knee push-ups or something.
Speaker 2:Um, it was a wreck, it was. It was just crazy and um, but I fell, I fell in love with it because it was difficult. You know, I like so to your question of being competitive, not really with others, but I like difficult things and this was difficult and it just all made sense. Yeah, that's true. So, after a year and a half joined CrossFit Gym KOP, across the gym KOP, and I think I just did weekends because that's all I could afford at the time, just two days a week until I had a job as a counselor. And then, once I had a job, then I went on full-time or unlimited.
Speaker 1:You said you were grad school at the time. Man, I know those days. That's pretty much how I got into it too. I wasn't in grad school, but I was in school, paying my way through. I was buying I think Apex had punch cards but three series of them, just three classes at a time, were cheaper. I was just buying bundles of those going back and forth, which is spending more money in the long run. But when you're short on cash at that time, when you're young, college, high school age, kid, it's hard to do. You know, Yep, Were you a workout person before that time period? Like I know you'd said? You heard about it through a girlfriend at the time's dad. Had you been at the gym at all before that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, here and there I was doing like traditional kind of like curls and bench press and at the time time right before that I think I had heard of this like navy seal workout of like a whole different, a whole variety of different types of push-ups and some pull-up work, um, and some lunges.
Speaker 1:But you'll fit uh with with uh mark mark something it wasn't seal fit, but it was a.
Speaker 2:It was like a. It was definitely a navy seal type program. Yeah, not that I was looking to become a seal or anything, but you know it was special forces and things like navy seal related stuff was really getting to be pretty popular back then. And um, I just ran across it on either some website or maybe a magazine and you know that definitely did help with body weight related stuff. But, um, yeah, no, no formal um weight training or anything like that love it.
Speaker 1:So take me back even before that. Now, right, let's talk about like young chris. Like you talk about how you know you were a person with the, the, the no sum in your goals. Like you're always about the journey, the expansion. Like how long have you been like that? Like what were your early interests when you were younger? Take it back to like middle school, right. Like what were your interests from there?
Speaker 2:I played soccer growing up and then I was, you know I was a decent student enough to get into a selective private school in New York city. So I lived in, grew up in New Jersey and would commute to New York city.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and that that was a great learning experience, just from like a? Uh needing to take public transportation into New York city and navigate the city. And you know, uh grow up pretty quickly. And so, you know, I went to high school there and then I had no desire to stay in the city, went to Villanova, actually for engineering, because I was decent at math and science.
Speaker 2:And in the middle of junior year of college I had this epiphany that I didn't want to be an engineer. And so, the middle of junior year of college, I had this epiphany that I didn't want to be an engineer. And so a lot of people you know a bunch of my buddies also didn't love it, but they were going to stick it out. But I, you know, if anything, I'm a person where, if I feel a strong calling either against something or for something, I'm going to go do that thing or avoid that thing, right. So it was very obvious to me that engineering was not going to be my future. Um, yeah, and so I switched to human re or human services, uh, with the goal of becoming a high school counselor, because that to me felt way more authentic, uh, in terms of working with people and helping people what?
Speaker 1:where did those feelings develop from, like what made you want to work with high school kids?
Speaker 2:It was. You know, it was this internship I had in junior year. Where I'm sitting at the desk I am like calculating the area of a drainage basin or something like. Super for me, mundane something like super for me, mundane.
Speaker 2:And I just had this epiphany that I would rather turn around and talk with the secretary about her kids and like interact with people than do this work in front of me on the desk. Yeah, and I took a look at everything I did in college, extracurricular wise I was a resident assistant, volunteered for, volunteered for a service break trips, um, was president of the tour society. Uh, everything I did by choice had to do with people and the one thing that didn't really have to do with people directly was my major. So once I realized that, I realized that that was not aligned with my interests and so I pivoted hard one 80 to human services and stayed a fifth year. Never realized I would be that person who you know would be a fifth year senior in college. But I was, and then stayed another two years for grad school. So I really was like the van Wilder on the Nova campus.
Speaker 1:That's funny, before you keep going with that. Well, how that pivot that you were just talking about, right? What do you think the turnover time was that from? Like okay, I had the epiphany to, I take the first step towards 180. Like, how long do you think that you sat on that?
Speaker 2:It was the first semester of junior year. So I got off this internship in the summer and started junior year and I just knew something wasn't right. So I went to the career office, took all these assessments, talked to career people and that that largely also informed like what I was interested in doing, because I at one point I wasn't sure. And so what I realized through my own self-discovery was that I wanted to help kids do that and so becoming a high school counselor. You know, I took one of those assessments and it said I should be a park ranger and I was like, well, I mean, I like being outside and I like being active, but I'm not going to be a park ranger, right? So?
Speaker 2:But what I gleaned from that is that I wanted to. You know, engineering was not going to be it for me. Yeah, so we had I was an RA at the time and for my residents who are freshmen, I ran this uh event where I had this guy come in and do a Myers-Briggs assessment and, uh, I took it with them and you know I'm an ENFP and the guy was like, well, if you're an ENFP, chances are you won't be, something like you know, an engineer, like he literally spelled it out and um during my like self-discovery.
Speaker 1:So I was like well, that that is a very clear sign that I should not continue down this path. Hop off that boat right away.
Speaker 2:There you go. Yes, was just in it for the love of CrossFit for many years, just loving the coaching side of things, the nutrition side, I would blog about it, I would talk. You know part of you know I lived up to that stereotype of like how do you know someone's doing CrossFit? It's because they can't stop talking about CrossFit. Or first rule of CrossFit is you know, talk about CrossFit. So I was that guy at parties, at social events, at whatever, trying to get people in and trying it or, if they didn't live close, trying to get them to go walk into their closest box.
Speaker 2:The business side of things really didn't come into play until I saw other people opening up their own gyms or breaking off and kind of doing their own thing and then realizing that maybe that was something I wanted to do and then realizing that maybe that was something I wanted to do. And then once I realized that I read all these books behind me I read as many business books as I could Because, as I said in the beginning, I'm a researcher and I like to have information before I go into something. So I knew nothing about business on a formal sense I didn't go to school for business or anything, and you know, no one in my family owned a business or anything like that.
Speaker 1:So parents or any close relatives.
Speaker 2:Did you ever have any like no, first no, no, dad was an accountant, mom was a paralegal. So no, definitely nothing to that degree. So no, definitely nothing to that degree. And yeah, and so I consumed as much as I could and I realized that, yeah, like counseling, working with kids was fun and it was rewarding, but I felt an even greater calling to open up a gym.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you were at that time. You were working in counseling when you're doing CrossFit. That's what's going on, both those yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I go work in high school, I would help kids with career and college stuff.
Speaker 2:And then, after school got out, you know, we got out like three would would coach in the evenings and then Made it, yeah, made a plan to open a gym.
Speaker 2:At the time, you know, chris and I were married and so, yeah, there was a big discussion as to, like, what debts we needed to pay off. I had a bunch of student loans, uh, cars and, uh, you know, my wife is uh self, you know she, she knows this about herself, she's risk averse, um, and so we paid off all of our student loans, our cars, um, so it was not some people have an idea and they just open the gym, you know, start the next day, right, um, while I think I would have liked to do that, um, it was definitely smart financially of us to to pay these things off to have very little risk. Cause the worst yeah, the discussion we had was that the worst thing that happens is I try it for like a year or two, yeah, and if it's really not working, I go back into the school system because as a male counselor, I I really could, you know, I could get a job Right.
Speaker 2:It was not a worry. It allows you freedom to really do the thing you should be doing, which is providing a quality service, without having to compromise just to make ends meet. Right, like I mean, you're bootstrapping it, you're making it work, and so it's not like you're rolling in on day one, but if you can reduce your obligations before you go into, you know opening your spot, it can definitely help.
Speaker 1:Love that so I know you have a pretty good memory. Think about a lot of things all the time. You do a lot of research. Can you remember those early stages, like the early books you were reading, like on business, and any big thing you learned from them before you started that you still like implement today?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, um, I mean, the first one that everyone kind of hears about or reads is the E-Myth.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's what the Northeast rep recommended to me.
Speaker 2:I read that before opening here yeah, and it's really short and it's a you know, it's a parable format. So it's a story and the biggest message there is that you're you know. It's one thing to be the technician you know in our example, let's say, a great CrossFit coach, right. But the minute you open a business, you're no longer just a technician, now you are a business owner. So there's a decision to be made as to you know, to what degree do we remove ourselves from the actual delivery of that service? Now, I believe that actually, if your perfect day revolves around coaching, because you love coaching people, then you should stay in that role. But you should also hire for the things that need to happen on a business level, like marketing, like sales, like an administration. You know member management, canceling, provisioning, you know things of that nature. Client success manager, or you know some sort of like people management. Or joy girl, joy boy, you know some sort of role like that to celebrate members. Joy girl, joy boy, you know some sort of role like that to celebrate members. So E-Myth is definitely one of them In our line of work.
Speaker 2:I really like Power of Moments, because that book by Chip and Dan Heath really hones in on the fact that like, especially as a service-based business, we're creating and facilitating these powerful moments for people. You know, when someone PRs, that's a powerful moment and we should celebrate that, right. Um, I uh, yeah, I mean those two. Um, plenty of people can read all about sales. Uh, mostly because we need to sell in order to stay alive as a business.
Speaker 2:But a lot of people in our industry feel icky about sales, so the more that we can wrap our head around the fact that selling is just helping people show up at our door they want to join a gym. If we can help facilitate them realizing, you know, we're X amount of money per month for this service and that's a good match, then we've just helped someone and, yes, there's an exchange of money. But I do find working with gym owners that a lot feel like they're. You know they don't want to be the slimy used car salesman, Right, and so there are ways to not be that but to also have a profitable business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean, in that instance too, it's like you, going back to what you said, you believe in the service that you're selling, right, so put your all behind that. What happens psychologically for people is they read that you don't believe in your service. So that's when the negotiating usually starts, or that's when the okay maybe I'll have to give this a second thought usually starts. You know, like being in the first three weeks, like where I'm offering the free classes and everything, like I've had to hone in on all that stuff, like aggressively. You know, like showing people that like this is where we are and this is growth from every day. We're going to get a little bit better and I believe in what I'm trying to sell to you, you know. So that's the.
Speaker 2:Um, so I've also done photography. Um, I was a wedding and family photographer, um, just kind of picking up a camera for our honeymoon it was the first time I got a, like a nicer camera and then at the gym, at KOP, um, I would take photos of, uh, people working out and that turned into family portraits that people would ask me to do and that turned into weddings, and so I got pretty decent at photography. That was actually a path I considered going down full time as well, because it got to the point that I could have done that. So there were, you know, there were consultations. I would take with, you know, brides and grooms to, you know, sell them on my service, Um, but this, this was in alignment or around the same time that I was also considering opening a gym.
Speaker 2:So I was reading all of these books about sales things like, uh, persuasion, um, drive, um to sell is is human, is a is a great one. Um, Chris Cooper has written a number of books, one of them being like help first, which is that idea of like helping first. You know, is is selling, and so I think I was just absorbing a lot of this podcast also play a huge role in a lot of education, Um, and uh, yeah, it was one of those I had a very, very similar thought of, like, okay, I don't, I don't want to be a slimy used car salesman type, Um, but I also recognize the importance of getting people to actually try this thing. I would also, you know, at KOP for Amy, um, I would do intros, a lot of those intros.
Speaker 2:So that is selling too, right, yeah, so yeah, no formal training whatsoever, but a lot of inputs and a lot of practice at a very, at a pretty low risk or low stakes for various things. Yeah, so like.
Speaker 1:I was the same way, man, I, I, I sharpened my sword, I honed my skills like on the job, right Like.
Speaker 1:I had a little bit of more formal training. When I started in, like the more nine to five jobs right For people that are going to only stick in those courses, but most of it was on the job and I see like this is just my opinion too a more willingness to give up from people that are in the situations where they have that more formal training right Because they're like, okay, I'm going to see 10 more people after this person. Like you own a CrossFit gym, you may get four people brand new walking in off the streets in a week and then it might be weeks before you see another person. So you really got to try to like foster that contact every time you get that. Do you ever notice any differences between people with more formal training versus people that learn on the job Because I know you hire people now too. Some of them have skills in formal training and then people that you just develop yourself. Do you notice any differences in those two realms and spaces?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are definitely differences in the sense of being comfortable with things like handling objections.
Speaker 2:You know, if you're formally trained on that, that's one of the main things that you're working on is handling objections like oh, I can't afford this, or I need to go talk about it with my spouse, or, you know, I'm not sure I can start right now, right, All that.
Speaker 2:So I think there's a comfort level that just takes practice in terms of things, handling those things, you know. I would also say, though, that if someone has experience on a more corporate level, they might actually be coming in, depending on their experience, obviously, and their personality. You know, they might be a little more abrasive than I would want them to be, and the reason is, you know, we're in a relationship business. You know, there's a lot of times where, if someone's selling, if you're selling a car right, and that person buys that car like, of course you might follow up with like an email to see how they're doing, or you might send like a postcard or something, but for the most part, the transaction is done right. Yeah, Now, hopefully it went well enough that that person recommends the dealership to their friends and family whenever they say they need a car right or if all that stuff.
Speaker 2:yeah, exactly so, like I'm not saying that, that salesperson is, um, you know, not thinking of that, but it's very different when someone comes into our gyms. If we do the transaction, if we make the, if we quote unquote make the sale, the relationship has just begun. And so I'm actually I'm writing a book about this because I think it's important enough that the idea that people come to us for fitness but they stay because of the hospitality, they stay because of the relationships they make with people the experience that they have in our walls literally changes people. Like physically. It can change people. Obviously, people lose weight, they get stronger, but you and I both know that most people also are more confident, they are happier, like literally happier in their lives because they do these hard things right.
Speaker 2:Like happiness is not just having more money or getting a new car or getting clothes. Like happiness comes from, uh, going through, like working on hard things and then getting through that, like it's the process and it's the becoming a better person. That's really what creates happy people. And the fact is I mean, we saw this with COVID you know everyone split off and we're doing zoom workouts, but then, once you know, restrictions lifted, people came back and the reason is because we're naturally wired to want to be around other people. So we're we.
Speaker 2:I was telling this to my staff last weekend because we had a staff meeting and I truly believe we have the best jobs in the world and one of the most important ones in the sense that not everyone's going to be a competitive crosshitter, of course not. But if we can make people both physically healthy and then also happy people, it means they're going to be better at whatever their job is right. So we need engineers in the world, we need accountants in the world, we need, you know, insert any occupation right. And if people can do those things better and more consistently, because they're not getting sick and they're not dying early and they're, you know, actually happy people who show up to the workplace happy. Right, that's because of us, right.
Speaker 2:So it's not obviously just about us in a selfish sense, but if you think about it, we are on the. We're on the preventative side of healthcare, right. We're not on the sick care side of like just trying to, you know, mitigate illness and disease and you know, give someone a pill, and so there's a time and place for that. Right, like you break a leg, of course, emergency medicine is amazing, right. Right, not the time for therapy, right, exactly, we're on the preventative side of things. We want people to just never need a chronic disease drug, right, right. So, yeah, I feel very strongly about this because it's very clear that, while people might come to us because we're a gym and they want to get healthy and they want to lose a couple pounds, there's so many more benefits to getting involved with gyms like ours and, yeah, I think it's super important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, One of my favorite parts of this job and what we do day to day is the compounding impact we're able to have. You know, like if I have three people come to my 5am, that's three people that I can touch, but then they're going to go see however many people throughout the day and hopefully I've given them the best hour of their day at the top of it so that they go improve everyone else's day right, and they also strive to achieve more so that they're affecting their family lives. So, yeah, that compounding effect is across. The gym owner and coach man is one of the things that's kept me around in this business for like so long, you know, and to keep growing in it. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we, we are. You know, you obviously have to be knowledgeable and you have to have a base about the movement side of things, right? Like, if you know nothing about the technical aspect, then no, it's, it's not going to really work because, you know, the nature of our workouts are that there are technical movements and so we're not just a boot camp that has very simple movements and we can afford to just be a cheerleader, right, but we have to have that fine balance of knowing the technical side of things but also being a cheerleader and also being a mentor of sorts for people and also a community gatherer, right, we're galvanizers, we're bringing people together and, yeah, that's why I really like the CrossFit world. Um, so, because of my background, of engineering is, uh, physics based, right and very technical. So, the Olympic lifting there's a lot of different um physics references.
Speaker 1:So I like that you could just always key on and help people with and all those things Exactly.
Speaker 2:But the soft side of things, the personal side of things, definitely lends to, you know the counselor in me as well. So, yeah, that's why I love this industry, because it combines both.
Speaker 1:We're talking about your history, right there, right? So you go on said in this conversation back and forth, things of the more analytical side. We'll call it right With being an engineer, studying, researching, like deeply on all these subjects that you get involved with, right. But then also I've noticed that you're saying a lot about your creative side, and do you think you're more one way or the other? Do you view yourself as a creative? Tell me, like, what do you think about yourself?
Speaker 2:I think I am a creative, I like to, to create, right. So I've always liked writing. I've always had a blog or some sort, or now, on social media, that's kind of like how people blog these days or put their thoughts out there. Um, uh, I like understanding how things work, but in terms of you know, if I have to pick a left brain or right brain type deal, I'm going to pick the one that where I'm creating something.
Speaker 1:That's usually what you use Like on the day to day when you're looking at most problems, right? Do you go research based or creative, figure your way out through a base. What do you think you use more of with your brain when it comes to problem solving?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that that is a good question. I mean my answer is both right, because I do like numbers. I have a bunch of different tabs open with different metrics and KPIs and things that I do like to pay attention to A lot of times, though, in business ownership. And one of the things that I do like to pay attention to A lot of times, though, in business ownership and one of the things that I really like is, as Simon Sinek wrote, it's an infinite game, which means there are no just one right answers to things, and so what I really like about business is that you can be creative to make it work.
Speaker 2:Covid was a great example of this. Like, no one wanted COVID to come around, but everyone had to pivot and do something, and everybody did something slightly different and they made it work for their, for their people. Yeah, you know, the biggest, the biggest. So this wasn't technically your question, but I think it's relevant. One of the biggest things that I do find business owners, and particularly gym owners, can do is that they analyze too much and then they don't take action on the thing that they should be doing. So, yes, I do think in general, it's good to have information to make wise decisions.
Speaker 2:At the same time, the thing that separates a lot of business owners is that they actually do something about it, because you can generally pivot if it's not working. So, for instance, if you're trying to do specific programming or maybe you hire out for a third party to program there's a lot that are out there this day in the CrossFit world there's a dozen different companies you could pay to do your programming for you. If you spend a year trying to make a decision, just pick one and then with the best information that you have and then do it for a few months and if it's not working, you can always do another. Yeah, so you know business owners in general. You know I I did pretty decently in school, but I know a lot of business owners that did not do well in school and to their credit, I think in school we're learned that there's like one right answer. You know multiple choice answer is c. Yeah, in business.
Speaker 1:The answer could be a, b, c, d, n, e yeah, yeah, and even more on that subject, is that they teach you in school a lot of time, especially public high school uh, that your your goal is to find the right answer, right like that's. That's what the goal is. Okay, we're doing this right now. This is an exercise in finding the one correct answer, and I think what you're saying is so timely for what I'm going through right now. So I'm using CAP CrossFit Affiliate Programming for my programming, with myself changing it around.
Speaker 1:And the first week I put in these workouts and I'm like, all right, the ones that I put in, and I uploaded the people I've seen already, like I have to stick with. And then, week two, I wrote out workouts. I pulled some cap, wrote some of my own and there was a workout. I looked at it. It was four days out, like I think it was Tuesday. When I looked at it, it was for Saturday. I'm like I don't like this workout, but it's already posted. I can't change it. And I put my phone down and I picked it back up. I'm like I can change it. This is like this is, this is my gym, like I'm running it, like no one's done the workout.
Speaker 1:yet Like I could change it. Even if people had, even if I came in and first class of the day I had written something on the board, I could still change it, you know, to provide a better service. And man, like that small thing was like oh, you know, click, for me something's not working, I can change it, you know. So I was like I'm glad I had that thought early, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my, my first space was I've been in 2017 and my first space, I think, is actually a little bit smaller than yours. Um, there were many days that I wrote a workout up and then had to change it, simply because of the fact that there was no space and we needed to just make it a partner workout instead of a solo. Or get rid of the barbells for hang power cleans because there wasn't enough room, and make them kettlebell swings instead. Yeah, it's your place. You can do what you want.
Speaker 1:Right, it's much better to make a change and like I mean, if you need to explain it, if you feel like you need to explain it to people that do that, then like leaving it as the thing that you know is bad and then having to experience that and that's what Well look at the end of the day, the reason you even thought of that is because you were thinking of the client experience, Right.
Speaker 2:And that goes back to what I was saying before like the most important thing that we can do is realize that people are not coming to us just for the workout, right, because if they were coming for just the workout, they could actually just they could go do that at lifetime or anywhere in their garage.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, they're doing it because they want to be coached by you and they're also doing it because, hopefully, they have a good client experience. I tell my coaches that their goal is to have people leave and want to come back for the next workout. Yeah Right, that's it. Because if you come back for the next workout, it means you probably had a pretty good time, you probably got a pretty good workout and nothing stood out to you as needing to not come back. Right? And if we can keep people coming back day in and day out not every single day, but, you know, three days a week, right, for years that's pretty darn good compared to the general public in terms of keeping a fitness routine, right, right, I mean, it's hard to get people to come general public in terms of keeping a fitness routine, right, right, I mean it's hard to get people to come to something one time, you know.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 1:Getting them to. You know over time, commit to something is it's, it's big, it means your service is working Exactly. One thing that I've had like instilled in me, like from KOP, too and from my years of being around great coaches, is like I am my classes with, asking people like face-to-face personally, like hey, when are you going to be back? You know, Um, and that's a great question, love that question A big deal, you know. Because then they're like subconsciously, oh, he's going to be expecting me.
Speaker 1:Exactly the, the conversation that I'm putting out there, like on the apps, uh, especially with the AI workflows now that I have access to through PushPress, is getting people to sign up like a week out, days out, for their classes, because one, that's commitment to yourself and then other people can see you sign it in and you're like, okay, this person's going to be looking for me, like instill that value right at the beginning of it. You know so and I'd look, check for next week, and people are starting to do it. I'm like, all right, just, you got to keep going with this. Like so slow snowballs, they're going to build up to bigger mountains, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The classic quote is you know, people don't care how much you know until they know that you care Right. And so that you asking them that hey, when are you going to be back? Shows that you care right, you, you're, you're invested in them. You want success for them, right For sure I love that part.
Speaker 1:So, man, you were just talking about it. Oh, like I want to wrap the conversation up with these last few topics. Tell us about, like, your first year, 2017, in the space. Like tell us about some things you learned that might've been losses. Tell us about a big win how did that go in the first year?
Speaker 2:Man. So I first talked to these landlords in 2015. So I, you know, I someone I had coached elsewhere because I would coach at KOP and then Thermal and Conchi, and so someone that I was coaching knew that I was looking for my own space and ping me about this space in Ambler, and so I emailed the landlords and they were like, when would you like to? You know, when are you looking to like move in or use the space? I was like tomorrow, like as soon as possible, right, so that was 2015. We didn't open until 2017 due to fit out permit process, occupancy permit, a whole host of things. Um, so it was. It was a much longer fit out process then and it wasn't even a fancy fit out or space but, um, you know, it just took long. Yeah, and uh, 2017, it was rife with a number of like facilities issues the toilets kept clogging up, the sinks kept clogging up, the sinks kept clogging, the pipes burst behind the wall. Uh, it was. It was a literal mess. Um, at one point we took down a I took down a cinder block wall which covered everything in dust. Um, to create more open space because usable floor space. At first it had. We had like 1500 square feet and then knocking down that wall turned it into more like 1800 or so. So it was. It was, it was tiny.
Speaker 2:But you know, I, when you're first opening up I don't you know cause I work with a number of gym owners now on a lot of this stuff and I don't want someone to open up in a 5,000 square foot space, which is about what we're in now. We're in like 5,500 square feet Because people will naturally push out and spread out from each other, and I think there's something to be said about having a place like a physical space, small enough that people have to get to know each other, like a physical space small enough that people have to get to know each other right, like if you are, if you're six feet away from someone, you're inevitably going to learn who they are, what their name is and right, just because you're in close proximity to each other. You know, I think that's important, I think that's actually a good thing, it's a beneficial thing. So, yeah, you know gym owners who are looking to start on their own or have their own brick and mortar.
Speaker 2:No, I don't necessarily recommend only like a thousand square feet, unless you're only doing something like personal training. But if you're running group, yeah, like what are you in? Like 3000 square feet or so? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just under that and the the square footage out out, like on the main gym floor, is somewhere, probably right around 2000, you know yeah I love that size.
Speaker 2:That's a great size. Anywhere in that like two to three thousand square foot range, is sure perfect for facilitating community and getting people to know each other, but also having enough room to do the things you need to do right, and also it's like I mean you've been here with the rig up.
Speaker 1:The rig is the centerpiece of it, so it's where people like flow with the workout and it's facing each other. You know, at some points, or if there's multitude of people, you'll be right in front of a right behind somebody. Um, and I like that aspect. When we were first coming in here, my layout person, we were thinking about putting the rigs, like one half of it, on each wall and I was like I think it's better to just put it in the centerpiece, you know, and have people go around it. And we're still figuring out the flow of, like, what people, where people will face.
Speaker 1:Those are things you, you let happen and like give a little to it, right, directed a little bit, but let people not to start doing things you know. So, yeah, I agree completely that tighter space. I mean, if you were I mean KOP is huge, right, like probably around 7,500 square feet Well, you have a small class, right? If you're brand new there, like you could have all the good people up in one part of the room and then you're brand new in the back half of the room, right? So that's good for a 16-year affiliate owner.
Speaker 2:But for me that'd be tough to ingratiate those new people into the community if they're consistently away from everyone else. You know Exactly. Also, keep in mind that your founding members, the people who are there in these first days and months and even this first year, are going to become your ambassadors for the most part. You know you don't have to necessarily put them, put that label on them publicly, but they are your first people that really set the tone, for you know what the culture is going to be like. So you know I just did another podcast about this idea that you, as the owner, are the captain of the ship, you are the protector of the culture. But your founding members also permeate that culture out and like however they're behaving is how new people are going to assimilate in and and realize like what's okay or what what's not okay and how do I act and what do I do.
Speaker 2:And you know how much complaining happens or doesn't happen and how much fist bumping happens or doesn't happen and how much you know good jobs and high fives. You know all of that to me is that client experience. And so these first few months that you, you just opened, so these first few months, are critical to get those, even though these people might not be with you five years from now. I mean, I hope they are and I hope it works that way, but sometimes they won't right. They move, they, you know whatever. So, on a long enough timeline, every member is going to cycle out in some way, shape or form, and that's just reality. But the culture is what really stays, and that's something that is paramount to be focusing on, for sure 100% Right now with the people that are coming in.
Speaker 1:a lot of them are already close friends, right, because they're coming over, because they have been on the inside of this building up for the past few months.
Speaker 1:And, uh, if it was, if I was on year six or seven in class, when they're talking to each other and, you know, being a little bit disruptive, I might like dip that in the bud a little bit sooner. But now I'm like, okay, I like that, I like that you guys are here and enjoy being around each other. You know, for me in this first three weeks, the moment that made me feel like, okay, this can be a success for my metric is that after a Saturday class like I have this couch back here where I'm podcasting at right now everyone that was in the class came and sat back here and hung out while I was like taking a phone call on the front, and they were there for a good half hour just chatting. You know, made it seem like it was already lived in, like that was the natural thing for them to do. Do you have any wins from the early days? That was like, like reinforced your belief in running a business.
Speaker 2:Our grand opening, I thought was a really big win because it was timeline wise there's probably a month or more after actually opening the doors and like running things. But, and that's fine. I generally recommend to do what we call like a soft opening, like just literally start operating and then later on down the road you can have a more of a party like a grand opening. But we had, you know, I didn't want to make it just about us, and so we had partnered with the Boys and Girls Club in Ambler to come out and we basically raised money for them and had a raffle. You know, that gave back to them. I thought that was really cool because, well, number one, the head of that Boys and Girls Club joined and basically her whole family joined as members. Um, her mom came in, her, well, her husband was already searching for cross-stitch in the area, and then our connection for the grand opening. He realized that, you know, we were going to be right down the road, so that was convenient for him. But then their entire family joined.
Speaker 2:Um, but also just this idea that again, it's not just about the workout, it's not just about even, you know, about you as an individual coming to work out Like we are very hyper local businesses we're. You know we're not trying to get members from a state away or across the country, or, honestly, even more than like a 15, 20 minute drive, right For sure, yeah, and so the more we can, you know, be part of the greater community and get to know other businesses in the area and nonprofits in the area and, you know, be part of the community in more than just the fact that you're a gym to me is a really good sign, in more than just the fact that you're a gym to me is a really good sign. Um, because again, people are going to come for a workout but they're going to stay for the community, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, as cheesy as it sounds, that's so real. I mean, if you ask people what they love about their gym and it's like nine out of 10 people are going to say that but it's, it's real Cause I mean they could go. I mean there's a crunch up the road for me. You know people want to just get their workout in. They could go there for much cheaper. Man, I'll say, what you just said right there made me feel good, because I'm doing something really similar for a grand opening next week. We're partnering with our next door neighbor. They have the record store there and they also run a nonprofit for their son, who has autism, called Coffee Closet, where he makes coffee and smoothies and all that stuff. So they're gonna be selling some- Is this.
Speaker 1:Jake.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Jake Barista, jake exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jake has been up in Acona for one of our competitions, selling coffee. So, yeah, we know Jake. Well, yeah, awesome, yeah, so they're gonna be-.
Speaker 1:They're gonna make a hungry dog smoothie for afterwards. Nice little-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice nice.
Speaker 1:So yeah, we're going to be doing something similar man.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. He's right by you. That's right, oh man.
Speaker 1:Right next door I was just over. I'm going to drop a video, a probability that right after this I have it all queued up to post. So that's awesome and what I was thinking be a part of something, right, that's. That's like one of my main drivers like let's be a part of. I can't change everything in the world. You know, my reach is so far. It might grow from year to year by the work that I put in, and I just want to consistently be able to have my reach go towards doing good in the things that I believe in.
Speaker 1:Right, like, yes, I talk a lot about with people. We don't always have to promote our feelings and our beliefs and everything. Just try to go live it, you know. So I want to put that into practice a lot more with this business. Have it be a reflection of my beliefs so that people don't have to ask oh, what do you think on this? It's like, oh, I know, I know how he feels on this, because this is what they're doing with their time period. So, yeah, man, I love that and, like I said, that makes me feel good. I'm glad that I didn't have to go through the permit restrictions and all that time like you did, like a lot of my friends did, uh, but I definitely want to have a similar time, like like you guys did with the great opening. So, man, like at the end of this, uh, tell me, like what's next? Like what are you hungry to do with your time and your energy in 2025?
Speaker 2:Oh man, um, so last, so I did. I bought a second gym, uh, out in Paley. Uh, it a very different gym, though, because it is access, 24-7 access, and there is a personal trainer there who runs his own personal training business out of that. So I got that going on, but it's less. You know, there's no staff other than him, so it's less people management than Kana is.
Speaker 2:I got two kids. I got a nine-year-old and five-year-old, so there's a lot of different activities to focus on with them. You know, my, my, I was just talking about this and, um, the idea that, like, I'm not necessarily someone who has very specific goals, uh, like a five-year vision or 10-year vision, is not something that I really gravitate to, because I generally like to think about, you know, in the short term, or you know, let's say, within the next year or even shorter than that, what are the things that I can be doing? To, number one, be my best self. But then also, for me, a big priority is to be a good dad, a good husband, and so, yes, I know I could probably crush it even more quote, unquote on the business front, but it would mean that I wouldn't be home in the mornings to cook breakfast for my kids or be home for dinner with them, and I'm good with that, like that's okay, because if you know they're, they're going to grow up and I can maybe focus more on business, but I can't do that now and then try to make up for that time lost time with them, especially when they're little and they're living in the house, right? So, um, you know, I think a lot.
Speaker 2:I think some people might look at like the, the famous entrepreneurs and the famous, you know tech gurus and all that, and and think they want to be like them. And I think I would just question that thinking and and really look at, like, okay, what did they do to have to get there? What sacrifices did they need to make? You know how many of those you know famous entrepreneurs? How many of them are divorced? How many of them don't have relations with their kids? You know, I would really want people to think hard about that in terms of what they want for their life, right?
Speaker 1:I left the mentorship meeting that we had thinking about the, the, what we said, that there's not really a such thing as balance, like it's more about finding out where your priorities lie and try to prioritize those and understand that the things that are at the top of your priority list might like slack off a little bit right. So, being honest with where your priorities are, what you can do, what you can put all your effort and attention to, and then what's going to have to like wait for another time where you can really focus more in on it, that's my biggest takeaway from the mentorship group that we had. So, yeah, I believe that man, they call that grind culture from before right, like working 24-7, never sleep. I don't believe in that, like you-.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Gary V work 30 hours in a 24-hour day and I think for some people, they need to hear some of that message, right, because maybe they have been thinking about quitting their nine to five and actually doing the thing they've wished they did years ago. Yeah, I, I think. I think some parts of those messages are really good, but I also think, um, when you actually look at, like let gary v, for example, right, like he split from his wife, you know, I don't. I don't know what kind of relationship he has with his kids. I'm hopefully a decent one. I don't know what kind of relationship he has with his kids. I'm hopefully a decent one.
Speaker 2:But when you see him out and about for 22 out of the 24 hours a day working and grinding, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know. One of the greatest relationships, yeah, yeah, when I'm on my deathbed, am I going to? Really? There's the famous book where the hospice nurse, or or someone like, interviewed all these people who were, you know, on their deathbed and one of the very common regrets that people made, especially men, were that they worked too hard or they were at work too much, right yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, like I think that's I think that's powerful, right?
Speaker 2:you know you're gonna have different seasons of life and, uh, if you have that time to put all these hours in, yes, absolutely Go ahead and do that, right, yeah, especially if it means this work now can pay off later on, when maybe you do want to dial it back a little bit, and then you have this machine kind of running. Yeah, yeah, absolutely Put the time in, for sure.
Speaker 1:It's great for us that it could be a place that we could both be at and enjoy, with all of our friends too. I mean, luckily, I met a girl that's a CrossFitter, so she, just like we were talking about you, will run her mouth about it all the time too, want to be here for multiple hours of the day. So that's good. It's been a great convo. Thank you so much for coming on today. Thanks for having me you today.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. You talked about mainline play. Anything else you want to plug at the end of the episode? Any mentorship groups you have coming up, anything like that? Yeah, I mean you were at the. I did annual planning for local business owners, so we'll see what that turns into. That's. That's just something that I've always wanted to do and get people in person talking about business and what they have going on. I'm working on a book. I don't have a title, but yeah, it's all about the idea that micro gyms are really. It's way more about the hospitality and the client experience than it really is about just the fitness. Yeah, other than that, uh, trying to make it, make it work oh yeah, I love that man.
Speaker 1:Well, chris, thanks again for coming on dogs. It's been another great episode out there. We're gonna get out of here now peace.